The Oera Linda Forum

I have been on a short rabbithole about Turks too in the distant past, but I found it more and more fantastical, and there was Turkish greywolf/fascist 'politics' involved I found out. Everyone came from them and is connected...Wewuz Kangz nshit so I dropped it. Alright, I do kind of the same with NW-europeans, as in; 'could it be…?' but I try to be honest. I never thought we really did anything in prehistory and never felt inferior to/about all the cultures, just fascination. I don't even care if we are not the root of civilisation, I just feel Dutch mentality is still very much about honesty, humility, justice, leave people alone etc So wouldn't OL make sense, and be an amazing realisation? And inspiring no matter what?
I loved romantised stories about Jews, gypsies, Mongols, Japan, Maya. Black artists, anarchists etc. Grew up never thinking these would be enemies toward me. Or 'we need to start loving ourselves a bit more'.
But now I see we desparetly need a little selflove and selfpreservation. And we do have a great past and qualities, and 'others'deserve a bit more distrust and rejection. But you sound like a cool guy I could befriend. I can fill in a lot of gaps in your knowledge. I like how you think anyway. I was friends with a Rosicrutian girl and read some of their writing, it overlaps with Zohar/Mason/Hermetics/Gnostisism and it's not all nonsense, but it is curated. I'm glad I didn't become a Nazi and OL helped, but some may think I'm too close to it, just for being honestly examining similar topics that I've before been scared away from by post-war attitude and ongoing corruption of our thinking.
All of it began because I want the state to be impartial and the ethnic Dutch people as sovereign, as it officially was before the EU. You can't have a safe just state without a limited, defined people, keeping others out.
Lately I found the channel Frojax, these young brothers have a tight argument for race-realism(it's not just skinhue) and defend it in debates.

Thanks Kraftr, for telling me you like the way I think. I even sound like a 'cool guy'. You are more than welcome to fill gaps in my knowledge, that would be very much appreciated!

You write you are glad of not being a Nazi, but you are close, as you seem to admit? I don't even know what 'Nazi' means for you, I guess it's about white supremacy? Or just the idea the Dutch (or Germans?) are better than the rest, so let's keep the rest out? You think the ethnic Dutch people were sovereign before the EU?? When was that, before the Maastricht Treaty (1993)? By then most immigrants from the former colonies, plus 'guest workers' from Turkey and Morocco were already settled in the country (and before that the Sephardic Jews, Huguenots, and so on).. Do you realise the Nazis were a branch (or tool) of the Zionists?

If you ask me, people are usually prone to settle somewhere and stay there if life is good, or at least bearable. Until bad times come, it can be climate change, war, or something else. If people can't survive somewhere, they will move to try to find a better place. I think we humans did this from the very beginning. I feel people should have the right to migrate, if they feel the need. The world belongs to all of us.

Borders are artificial. The geographical area now called 'the Netherlands' was never fenced off from the outside world, it was always a coming and going of people.

That being said, since the rise of 'populist' politics (25 years ago), I am slowly starting to realise my view is a bit elitist/globalist. I do understand that the best way to keep the poor poor, is to maintain a steady inflow of poor people from abroad. This keeps wages lower, and housing costs higher. There is a agenda behind the immigration politics, that is for sure. I would call it not a leftist but a fascist agenda. So just to be clear, I am not a fascist in any way shape or form. So at this point I have some sympathy to the real left, I wouldn't call them racists anymore, just for being against 'mass-immigration'.

Funny you admit being close to Nazi, but you dropped the 'Turkish rabbit hole' because of the extreme right wing stain it seems to have? Do you remember 5 years ago, when people who just wanted their freedom back were called Nazis? It's smart to call something extreme right wing, people will not take it serious and stay far away from it. I remember when I still believed in Aids, there were stories that in Africa they believed if you rape a baby child, you would be cured. Perfect controlled opposition if you ask me, how can you doubt the Aids narrative, are you a child molester??

In Babylon our languages got confused, but that was just the beginning as it seems. We now need to start with getting our definitions of certain words in line. I wish I lived in the time when usury ment (ANY) interest on debt, must have been a more honest time (not just in the little river-delta used to be known as Frisia).

Yeah I agree; I oppose the EU because it is fascist. I am percieved as Nazi, but I see the difference; ethnic nationalism, opposing communism etc is not fascist. Fascism can put on any coat, now it's neoliberal, climate etc.
Your painting Dutch identity as a melting pot is offensive to me because I see the hostile and opportunistic coming together in this propaganda magic. It is a view that appeals to your position as a global stranger. People who don't belong anywhere fall victim to opportunistic, hostile attitudes. Turks and Morrocans are still that, blacks and jews will forever complain. It is subversive without any effort. And thank you for recognising it is a war tactic. Globalism is not free trade, it is colonial, playing people against eachother, and plunder. Law and borders are not fascist. Migration is not a right. Our heritance, jobs, houses, welfare, living with us are not a right. Opportunistic selfish reasoning again. Maybe you are not cool? I liked your style of reasoning, reminded me of myself a couple of decades ago.
I dropped the turk rabbit hole then because it was dogmatic and cultish, no selfcriticism. And 'Turks' dit a lot of barbaric stuff, I just like the yurt mongol romanticism, some music and aestetics.
I can imagine the language being fascinating too.

I feel this is all a bit off topic.

I agree the EU is fascist, but so is the whole Dutch parliament (they showed their true colors when they all voted for the fascist covid coup). Leaving the EU leaves us with a totally corrupted national political elite.

I would like to continue about what you call the Turkish rabbit hole. I know the official history paints the Turks as a barbaric tribe, like the Germanic tribes, or the North African Moors (Berbers). So you if I understand you right, somehow you understand the Germanic tribes might not have been as barbaric as pictured by 'the Romans', but what we 'know' about the Turks is all true?

I still hope you have the time to enlighten me with your knowledge, especially since you seem to have an advantage of a few decades over me.. So far nothing you wrote here is relevant to me.

It was about genetics, racemixing and inbreeding among non-whites. Is that off topic or relevant to you? I mostly enjoy what you write about. I just felt called out by your white supremacist comment, and subversion of (Dutch) nationalist plights, while glazing Turks and elitist cosmopolitan awesomeness, it feels immature and disrespectfull/trollish. Otherwise carry on, it is interesting and I appreciate the effort.

Well, to be completely honest, I am not so sure anymore about the science of genetics, it seems to be an instrument to 'prove' the Jews are all related and come from the Levant. Something I am starting to doubt more and more at this point. Who profits from this science? The Zionists with their 'Israel project' (to make sure you understand that they are involved in much more than that).

I mentioned before the inbreeding amongst my globalist cousins. I think the elite marries within their own families because they know/think they know that way they will reincarnate within their own family, and rule forever. This might be what the Cabbalistic Tree of Life is about? Maybe I am wrong though.

Biology, evolution theory, I not so sure anymore about Darwin as well. But the idea that its not healthy to make offspring with a close family member seems just common sense to me. Inbreeding among non whites, sure, I am also against that, for the same reason. I don't see what's your point?

I don't see the problem with race mixing. Like I wrote before, I think we always received and absorbed people from abroad. But most people don't seem to like to mix, they prefer a partner that looks similar, has a similar cultural background and so on, and that is also fine with me. I mean, in the Netherlands, if you talk with someone with a Surinamese Hindustani background, you will see big chance they are married within their own group. Same for Turkish or Moroccan immigrants, and they mostly stick together in certain neighbourhoods of the bigger cities. They get blamed for their lack of assimilation, but I think it was all part of the plan, divide and rule. How about freedom of choice, isn't that a good thing?

I am sorry if you felt called out, but when I think of white supremacists, I think first of all of Zionists. After the fall of the South African Apartheid, there is only one Apartheids-system left, ruling to this day, until recently without much opposition from abroad. They never had my support. And those zionists are cosmopolitans like me. If you look at the data on IQ it seems clear the Jews are the master race, right? And sub-Saharan Africa has the lowest scores. I also doubt the whole IQ thing, I mean again, the plandemic was an eye opener for me in many ways, basically the whole of Israel got vaccinated, but Africa was a headache for mister Gates.

If we want to escape the panopticon of our globalist rulers, Africa might be the only option left for 'freedom refugees'. I am ready to jump the ship from my base here on the edge of Europe.

If we talk about Turks we think of people from modern day Turkey right? What if that is just one tribe of Turk/Turanian peoples? In southern Russia there are (muslim) Tatars who look completely European white to me. Marco Polo described the Khan as European looking. If it is true that (proto) Turkish is the first language, I think that is a big deal, even if some Turkish tribes might have had the custom to cut off the heads of their enemies and used the skull to have a nice,.. well, skull of wine.

So yeah, I think we went a little off topic here, I would like this topic to be about our hidden past. If the proto Turks played a big role in it, I want to know more, even if they really did kill a hell of a lot of Armenians a hundred-something years ago. I am not a Turkish nationalist, and I really don't have any agenda, I just want to have a better understanding of our true past.

So far I understand you reject the Turkish angle because it is said to be extreme right wing, Turkish nationalistic, dogmatic, and Turks are barbaric?

I am only 45 years old, but it was a long time ago someone called me or my words immature. I don't write much online, so no one used the words 'trollish' ever before, commenting on me. If I am writing bullshit here, it's only because I am a fool and I understand so little. That is why I decided to put my ideas into writing, and share them here with you all. Please follow me and share your thoughts! I am a big fan of a respectful dialogue.

On some important words and their possible Turanian roots

We all know how much we have to be grateful to the ancient Greeks and Romans for our current civilisation, or that's what we all learned in school. We can thank the Greeks for our lovely system of democracy, better than ruled by tyrants, a bunch of oligarchs, right? Do you remember when our aristocracy ruled, I prefer meritocracy, that's for sure.

Since I am not a native English speaker, my vocabulary is limited, so my language is simple. So I am pretty sure most of you can follow me so far. But do we really know where those words come from? Let's dive deeper into the dusty ancient webpage of mister Kaya, and see what he has to say.

Aristocracy

Most people will be convinced this word is Greek, 'Aristokratia'. Of course it is Greek, but did they invent it or 'steal' it from another language? Kaya:

'The Greek term "ARISTO", when decrypted as "AR IST O", is an anagram of the Turkish expression "ER ÜST O" or "ÜST ER O" meaning "he is the top man". The Turkish term "ÜST" means "the very top", "the best", "above all". This explains clearly the source of the Greek term "Aristo".'

Kaya follows to explain the rest of the word; 'The Greek term "KRATEIN", when decrypted as "ITAREKN", is an anagram of Turkish word "ITAREKEN" (idaregen, idare etmege aliskin) meaning "he who is used to rule" or alternatively, "a ruler or someone who knows how to rule". This Turkish meaning is also the same as the given meaning of the given Greek term "kratein". Thus again the source of the term is Turkish. Turkish word "idare etmek" means "to rule" and the suffix -KEN/-GEN makes the word to mean "habitually to rule".

Somehow this feels right to me, and in line with the Oera Linda, there must have been a time where you had to earn to rule by being (one of) the best, in stead of a hereditary inbreeding system.

Or am I romanticising our past? Because:

'Alternatively, when the Greek term ARISTOKRATIA is decrypted as "KORIS-AT-ITARA", it is found to be the anagram of the Turkish expression "KURUSh-Ata ITARA" (Kurush-Ata idaresi, para-baba idaresi) meaning "The ruling by the money-fathers (rich man)." In this anagram, Turkish "kurush" means "money" as "kurush" was the monetary unit of Turkish money system since ancient times. This is again in line with the definition of the term ARISTOKRATIA and hence, ARISTOCRACY.

In fact, even the word ARISTOCRACY, when decrypted letter-by-letter as "CORS-ITARACY" with the first "C" as "K", first "S" as "Sh" and the second "C" as "S", and read phonetically as in Turkish, it becomes evident that it is an anagram of Turkish expression "KURuSh ITARASU" (kurush idaresi, para idaresi) meaning "ruling by money." In this anagram, Turkish "KURUSH" meaning "money" and "ITARASI" (idarasi, idaresi) meaning "the ruling" have been manupulated into the English word ARISTOCRACY.'

According to the official history, the first (they still call it a 'barbaric relic' lol) type of modern money, as in gold coins, were minted in the ancient Lydia, on the Anatolian peninsula. So maybe Kaya can tell us a bit more please? Sure, he won't disappoint us!

'It is interesting to find the Turkish word "kurush" embedded in the word "Aristocrat" defined since Plato's time. "kurush" was the monetary unit in the Turkic monetary system probably since the times of Lydians or earlier in Anatolia. The reason for the "kurush" connection of Turs/Turks with the ancient Lydians of Anatolia is the fact that Lydians had a ruler whose wealth was proverbial in his own time. He was the Lydian king CROESUS [27] voiced as "KURUSH" as in Turkish. He minted the first Lydian gold coins known by his own name. Thus, the King CROESUS (KURUSH) being a ruler and also a very wealthy man was himself a "MONEY-FATHER" ("KURUSh ATA"). This would make him an aristocratic ruler.'

I would like to get to the next 'Greek' word, but Kaya has more to say in the same paper, I can't skip.

'A similar rich man of ancient times, i.e., "money father," was PLATO as his name indicates. In one meaning of the name PLATO, it is an anagram of Turkish phrase "PuL ATA" meaning "Money-Father". "PUL" was the general Turkish term meaning "money". PLATO was an extremely rich man both from the father's side and also the mother's side. PLATO is also known by the name "EFLATUN" in Turkish which is an anagram of Turkish phrase "EFE ALTUN" meaning "Gold Man". So in his time he was
a rich man - not only with wealth but also with knowledge. Thus the Turkish source for his "Greek" name PLATO and also his Turkish name EFLATUN verify each other. Both are manufactured names from Turkish expressions.'

https://www.polatkaya.net/Yahoo_Polat_Kaya/msg-166.htm

So it seems not much has changed, now we say cash is king, here in Portugal I can survive without bankaccount. Of course I am implying that cash might be related to kurush.

But enough about those aristocrats and their old money, we are democrats now!

Democracy

I hope you felt some amount of sarcasm in my words, because those Greeks, how democratic were they really? And earlier I wrote very frank, when I called the whole Dutch parliament fascist. But what does Kaya think democracy means?

'The term DEMOCRACY is indicated to be from Greek "demokratia" which itself is from Greek "demos" meaning "the people" plus "kratein" to rule or "kratos" or authority. [34]

The Greek term DEMOKRATIA, when decrypted letter-by-letter as "ODEM-ITARA-K" or "ADAM-ITORE-K" and with k/c translation, is an anagram of Turkish expression "ADAM ITARACu" (adam idareci) meaning "Men (people) are the ruler". This is exactly the definition attributed to the concept of so-called Greek "DEMOKRATIA". The Turkish word "ADAM" means "man" and "IDARACU" means "one who rules", "the ruler", "the manager or the administrator".

Thus it is clear that the word "DEMOS" is not Greek in origin. On the contrary it is from Turkish root word "ADAM" meaning "man".'

What do those supposedly Greek words have in common? Kaya; 'The term "CRACY" is an anagram of the Turkish name "KARACU" (KARACI) meaning "wanderer, gypsy". The name "GREEK" is said to be from Greek term "GRAIKOS" [35] . But "GRAIKOS" is an anagram of Turkish expression "GARA AI GÖZ" meaning "Black Moon Eye" indicating that they are "black moon" believers just like the other wanderers of ancient Arabistan.'
https://www.polatkaya.net/Yahoo_Polat_Kaya/msg-168.htm

I wonder why Kaya didn't explain this in the aristocracy paper? But let's continue, see if Kaya can shuffle some more Greek words into Turkish.

Olichargy

I Think we can already guess what this word will mean, based on everything above. Excuse me for just copying Kaya:

'OLIGARCHY is the form of governing by a few unvirtuous people, The name is said to be from Greek word "OLIGOS" meaning "few" plus "ARCHEIN" meaning "to rule". [31]

The Greek word "OLIGOS", when rearranged as "OSLIG O" or "O OSLIG", is an anagram of Turkish phrase "AZLIG O" ("azlik o") meaning "it is few". Thus, this Greek word "OLIGOS" also has its origin in Turkish.

The so-called "Greek" term "ARCHEIN", when decrypted as "ERHACIN", is an anagram of Turkish expression "ER HAKAN" meaning "Ruler Man". Hence, the word is again from a Turkish source.

When we put these two parts together, we get "AZLIK ER HAKAN" meaning "Few men are the rulers" - which is what OLIGARCHY is all about.

However, there is another dimension to the etymology of OLIGARCHY.

While the term OLIGARCHY is defined as a form of government in which power is vested in a few unvirtuous people, it also implies a selfish or self-serving form of government.

The term OLIGARCHY when rearranged letter-by-letter as "GAROCILYH" is an anagram of Turkish expression "GARACILUK" (i.e., GARACI'LIK, karaci'lik, çingenelik, yalniz kendi çikarlarini düsünme, sömürgecilik) meaning "gypsyhood", "brigandhood", "highwaymanship", "trickstership", "he who thinks of only his own interests and to hell with the rest", and "colonialism". Thus this Turkish term "GARACILUK" perfectly explains the implied meaning of OLIGARCHY. The Turkish word
"GARACI" (karacI) is defined as: 1. Gypsy; 2. brigand, highwayman; 3. Trickster. [32]

Thus, OLIGARCHY is actually the form of governing by a few unvirtuous "GARACI" minded people. Hence, it can be said that the etymological definition of "oligarchy" given in the dictionary as being [Greek "oligarchia" from "oligos" meaning "few" + "archein" meaning "to rule"] [33] is not totally truthful. Actually the term OLIGARCHY could have been defined as a form of governing by a few GARACI Lords (Gypsy Lords) or as a GARACI (Gypsy) system of governing. It seems that the definition has been laundered in order not to mention the term "Garaci". Additionally, the name of Turkish is never mentioned as source for these terms.'

https://www.polatkaya.net/Yahoo_Polat_Kaya/msg-164.htm

I could go on here with plutocracy, but this also means being ruled by the gypsy kings, so not much new here. But maybe one more to convince you a bit more that Kaya might be right?

Autocracy

'The Greek term AUTOKRATEIA, when decrypted letter-by-letter as "OTU-AKA-ITARE", is an anagram of Turkish expression "OTU AKA ITARE" (Odur aga idare, odur keyfi idare) meaning "It is the ruling of a lord", that is, an arbitrary ruling by a lord who is not bound by any law since his words alone constitute the law . Thus the Greek term AUTOKRATEIA includes the Turkish terms: "OTU" (odur) meaning "it is", "AKA" (Aga) meaning "lord" and "ITARE" (idare) meaning "ruling", all anagrammatized into one word.'

I would think that would be sufficient, but Kaya has much more to say about being ruled by a lord who is above the law (like the current Dutch king Willem).

'The Greek term DESPOTISMOS is another word meaning "autocracy". When the word is decrypted as "ISM DESPOTSO", it is from Turkish "ISMI DESPOTCA" meaning "its name is 'acting like a despot'". In this expression the term "DESPOT" is a Greek term which itself is likely an anagram from Turkish. This we investigate below. (…)

It is to be noted that in old times the Karaci people (Gypsies) were also called "POSHA" in Turkish. This name also reminds us of the Turkish title "PASHA" meaning the military general. (…)

In Turkish military, a "PASHA" (a general), in order to achieve the needed discipline in the army acts as an authoritarian. His orders are not questioned. Whatever he orders is done for him. Even the Turkish term PASHA is from Turkish "BASH O" meaning "He is the head" (i.e., head man, top man). (...)

Similarly, a "BISHOP" and a "PATRIARCH" of the Greek Church are heads of the religious organization. In fact, the term BISHOP is an anagram of Turkish "BASH APA" meaning "Head Father" referring to his position in the Church hierarchy. In church diction, priests are referred to as "father", "padre", "peder". The term "PATRIARCH", when decrypted as "APA-R-CHTIR", is an anagram of Turkish "APA eR eÇETIR" meaning "Father is the head man of the house". The ancient Turkish word "EÇE" is a dual identity word meaning "head of the house" which can be a man or a woman. The Turkish expression "APA eR eÇETIR" also refers to the ancient Turanian Sky-God, particularly the Moon-God.

https://www.polatkaya.net/Yahoo_Polat_Kaya/msg-172.htm

Conclusion for now

I think it is very interesting that all those seemingly related words ending on 'cracy' can be explained in different ways, using the Turkish language. I think Kaya is right, if you would want to invent a totally new language, this would be very hard. But creating a new language from an old one must be much easier. Maybe some of you think what Kaya does is just shuffling words till he can match it to Turkish, to prove it to be the first language. But can you do the same he does with your language, to prove it is older?

Since I never was a christian, I never took the bible literally. So for me the story about there being one language at a certain time, felt always like a fairy tale. Now I am really not that sure anymore. It is an intriguing thought though, if you would want to rule by dividing the people, giving them all a different language would be a master stroke. After that you rule them like crazy, forever.

The Turks were one of the tribes I considered could maybe be the Findas, who fled from a flood of their land. Turks came from the area above Mongolia, sometimes shown as Tartaria.(as far as I know) There was a huge, snowfree arctic area that is now under water. Did you find any references to that?

If I follow Kaya with his claims about the Turanian heritage of the ancient Iberians, it seems the old Europe was once peopled with only or mostly Turanians. If that is right, and the OLB is also right that Fryas people once inhabited the whole continent, these must be the same people.

When we talk about the Turkic peoples, we talk about a large amount of tribes, some of them blond, others dark, or with eastern (mongoloid) features. So it seems to me, the Turanians were the inhabitants of Eurasia, and they were in terms of the OLB both Fryas' as well Finda's folk. Or maybe the Turanians were Frya's folk, and inhabited most of Eurasia, and the mongoloid people were Finda's, mixed over time with the Turanians in the east (or in the case of Japan suddenly with an invasion from Korea).

Thinking of northeast Asia, I think first of all about the fate of the Mammoths, the way they froze instantly can only have happened by a swing in temperature from very normal, like 20 degrees Celcius, into who knows,... lower than anything measured in modern times..

Old maps show us a completely different world. Northeast Asia is not an exception. I do not believe that mapmakers four centuries ago just made stuff up, to fill the empty spots. Those maps likely show us a glimpse of the world before a global disaster.