ott wrote: ↑16 May 2024, 11:33
In another thread, Fryas
KJASAR (chooser) was mentioned as the possible origin of
caesar (German:
Kaiser) and
HÁGEST/HÁCHST (highest) of
August.
Old Norse and Finnish forms of Caesar are
keisari, with the distinctive eastern (read: Finnic) vocal ending. I learned today the word existed already in 600s BC to 300s AD work Ramayana as title of the lord of north pole:
Kesari is a male vanara, and a figure in Hinduism. He is the
father of Hanuman and the husband of Anjana. [...] While mighty Kesari ruled the Mount Meru/Sumeru [...] Kesari became his Chief Commander alongside ruling
the Mount Meru. (
source)
When 500s to 400s BC description of Uttarakuru land of north pole Meru mountain in Āṭānāṭiya Sutta is translated from Sankrit, the Bock saga story of Odenmaa emerges. A land whose leader sage Ukko Väinämöinen is called in Finnish poetry 'eye old man utra' and in Estonian poetry Utrekene. Whose messenger sons in Bock saga are detailed as
Han Odens (Udens) Man, or
Hanumans, going all around the planet. One of them being called Buddha, based on
bud 'messenger'. Likewise, the Kesari of north pole land is father of Hanuman. Hindu Hanuman is said to be an incarnation of Vaiy or Pávana, just as Ukko deities of Finland were called
pavannainen.
Furthermore there is independent evidence of the existence of Bock saga Han Odens Man 'He-Sun's-Man' in the medieval Mongol war story of Narayrgen 'Men of Sun', the northern Eurasian arctic people to whom Genghis Khan lost while the Mongols waged war against the Parossits 'Bjarmians' and furthest northern Russian-Finnish peoples (more on that
here).
Furthermore, just as the Bock saga ruling families are described as families of sun and moon, the medieval Kesari lunar dynasty of India had their names as
gupta ("the later Panduvamshis, like the Somavamshis, adopted names ending in -gupta. The Panduvamshi kings Tivaradeva and Balarjuna bore the regnal titles "Maha-shiva" and "Maha-shiva-gupta" respectively; multiple Somavamshi rulers bore the regnal name "Maha-shiva-gupta",
source), one known echo of the above Uttarakuru/utra/Utrekene mythos is the Mandean stories of
gupna, gufna as an title for
uthra 'divine messenger of the light' and for Gubran the watcher of north, with a heavenly steed. This is of course the Gubben or Ukko of Bock saga Odenmaa north pole land, with his mythological horse Sleipnir (also attested from Norse mythology).
Kesari the Vanara is the story of Vaner (Bock saga) and Vanir (Old Norse), who depending on story version are children of Aser (Bock saga) or their close relatives (Norse mythology). The monkey element comes from the story of the first humans Frei (Old Norse Freyr
veraldar goð ie. Frisian 'Wralda') and Freia (Frisian: 'Frya') as descendants of the monkey at site of original north pole point; in Norse saga versions these primeaval gods are of house of Vanir and the giants (ancestors of Finno-Norse lineages e.g. Fornjót 'ancient-giant' dynasty) are called 'kinsmen of apes' (Hymiskviða). In Bock saga the Ukko Väinämöinen line is the Frei and Freia lineage of former north pole land.
Therefore we can see the connections in Kesari story are multi-layered at depth and are not relient merely on any single pair of similar sounding names.
Keisari doesn't etymologically mean anything easily in Finnish (other than 'caesar, tzar'). Term appears in attested SKVR poetry in historical Christian era context. In Bock saga the leading Finns are noted speaking the proto-Germanic Root language (think as in written Swedish) and Norse sagas detail at length their ruling families' origins in Finland and repeative marriages with Finnish dynasties. Hence if we assume both Old Norse
keisari and Sanskrit
Kesari to be from Finnish keisari, it still needs (a likely Root-Germanic) original from, of which the Ott's suggestion of KJASAR is an excellent choice:
kjasar
Finn. keisari
ON keisari, Hindu Kesari
Furthermore, the Old Norse parallel term Kjárr, used alongside the seemingly Finno-Hindu-esque
keisari, can be easily etymologised as a truncate form of OL KJASAR:
kjasar
kja(sa)r
ON kjarr -> ON Kjárr 'Caesar'.
Both Norse sagas and Bock saga associate valkyria concept with Odin, Valhalla and so on. Again we see here the 'chooser' element, whether we decode the word via modern etymology (
valr-kjósa) or the old etymology (val as in Finn.
valita 'choose'; Germ., Finn.
val,
vaalit 'elections').
Thus:
the term 'Caesar' likely long predates the usage by Roman Caesar family of Sextus Julius Caesar in 208 BC, in context of a northern European monarchy both in mythological and historical sense (a mythos based on a real royal line and geographical country). For Roman theories on the origins of this title-name, see
here. None of which, by the way, explain how the Hindu or Norse forms, let alone variant Kjárr, came to be.